Eureka !!! :D Soldier & Battle Stress are coming tother

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tom1
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Re: Eureka !!! :D Soldier & Battle Stress are coming tother

Post by tom1 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:31 pm

just a note on the 25% of a unit left it doubles stress, I think if the enemy unit is 25% remainind the doubling up wouldn't take place as at least the unit thinks there friends didn't die in vain, but also dragons immortals etc take out 25% quite easily so wouldn't that make them break pieces easily?
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Re: Eureka !!! :D Soldier & Battle Stress are coming tother

Post by Dave » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:11 pm

tom1 wrote:just a note on the 25% of a unit left it doubles stress, I think if the enemy unit is 25% remainind the doubling up wouldn't take place as at least the unit thinks there friends didn't die in vain, but also dragons immortals etc take out 25% quite easily so wouldn't that make them break pieces easily?
Well Immortals never take break checks, so it would never affect them anyway ;) With Dragons, if you recall I going to do a table with larger beasts which was going to be about taking loads of LP damage would suffer X amount of battle stress, but with the new rule, I wouldn't have to do that. For instance, a Dragon with 20 LPs with less than 5 LPs left would suffer double battle stress, if it had to take a check that is. Also remember it double up battle stress, so by itself wouldn't do anything unless your piece was suffering from this.
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Re: Eureka !!! :D Soldier & Battle Stress are coming tother

Post by TristanSykes1994 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:05 pm

I think tom means the other way around dave, dragons and immortals have proven themselves capable of decimating units and the addition of the 25% losses rule would mean any unit that goes into combat against them is almost guaranteed to break against them.
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Re: Eureka !!! :D Soldier & Battle Stress are coming tother

Post by TristanSykes1994 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:13 pm

Here's a hypothetic battle to help show you what we mean.
A dragon with prince charges into a group of 40 herlancean spearmen, the dragon and prince combined kill 10 models, and the herlanceans wound the dragon twice. In the combat resolution, the herlanceans have lost as they suffer 5 battle stress from casualties plus an additional 3 for fear. With the 25% rule, as the herlanceans have lost a quarter of their unit, their battle stress is doubled from a total of 8 to 16. For the herlancean defense, they have a grand general nearby who grants 6 soldiering dice, they have a banner and the battle standard is nearby, giving a total of 8 dice to hold with against the Dragons 16 to break with. Odds definitely favour the Dragon here, Dave. And immortals would be the same.
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Re: Eureka !!! :D Soldier & Battle Stress are coming tother

Post by Dave » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:59 pm

TristanSykes1994 wrote:Here's a hypothetic battle to help show you what we mean.
A dragon with prince charges into a group of 40 herlancean spearmen, the dragon and prince combined kill 10 models, and the herlanceans wound the dragon twice. In the combat resolution, the herlanceans have lost as they suffer 5 battle stress from casualties plus an additional 3 for fear. With the 25% rule, as the herlanceans have lost a quarter of their unit, their battle stress is doubled from a total of 8 to 16. For the herlancean defense, they have a grand general nearby who grants 6 soldiering dice, they have a banner and the battle standard is nearby, giving a total of 8 dice to hold with against the Dragons 16 to break with. Odds definitely favour the Dragon here, Dave. And immortals would be the same.
I think you guys are right then :) especial with the 'Flimsy Ranks' rule in the game already, which does most of this new proposed rule work anyway. However, I think this would rule would be an nice alternative to flimsy ranks for large monsters and war machines in the game, which cannot suffer from it, because of them having an high amount of attacks. So, if they was near death, this new rule would kick in and may cause them to flee. What do you think???
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Re: Eureka !!! :D Soldier & Battle Stress are coming tother

Post by thebiggestjimbo » Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:45 am

My Original idea was that the 25% rule would apply INSTEAD of the per model stress accumulator. It would mean that larger units would take more casualties before getting stressed. It could apply, like dave said, to models with lots of LP's.

But i do agree that doubling the stress at 25% is a bit much.

J

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Re: Eureka !!! :D Soldier & Battle Stress are coming tother

Post by Dave » Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:25 pm

thebiggestjimbo wrote:My Original idea was that the 25% rule would apply INSTEAD of the per model stress accumulator. It would mean that larger units would take more casualties before getting stressed. It could apply, like dave said, to models with lots of LP's.

But i do agree that doubling the stress at 25% is a bit much.

J
Well it looks like we are all agreed then with this new rule :) However 25% of a 11lps is 2.75lps which will need to be rounded up or down, and I don't know about you guys, but I don't think I could work that out on the spot. So this rule by itself still needs a little more work yet to make it a playable rule in the game, as all rules should be quick and easy to apply. Many rules sound good to start off with, but when you apply them to the game they can turn out to be a total pain to use and can stop game flow. Also, Three Plains can be a very big game with a lot of stuff going on and to remember too, so new rules need to be as easy as 123, so they don't take up too much precious brain power, or my precious brain power anyway :? ;)

So I would suggest to make this new rule for beasts and war machines which have over 10lps, and when they are knock down to 4, they will suffer 4 battle stress dice. What do you guys think?
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Re: Eureka !!! :D Soldier & Battle Stress are coming tother

Post by thebiggestjimbo » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:35 am

I agree Simple is best! But Its pretty easy to divide the number of soldiers in a unit by 4 isnt it? Just divide by two, then two again. VOILA!

I dunno really, the battle stress/deviancy etc is pretty complicated, but i kinda like this as its such an important part of a battle. Its pretty rare in the old days for casualties over half the starting army size. I studied a lot of Napoleonic and Roman history. Lots of dice though, so maybe somehow figure it so there are less dice to be rolled somehow??

It may be a decent idea to have printable army "sheets" for each unit where you just put in the units details, with any modifiers like equipment, and maybe cross off boxes for casualties or something so its easy at a glance to keep track of your units/army. Could even use these sheets for various counters... Just an idea. Would be pretty easy to whip up said sheets on a spreadsheet or word processor and print out a load.

On a slightly unrelated topic... I reckon charging heavy cavalry should cause fear. It was a real test of a soldiers discipline to stand up to a heavy cavalry charge in real life.

J

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Re: Eureka !!! :D Soldier & Battle Stress are coming tother

Post by Dave » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:17 pm

thebiggestjimbo wrote:I agree Simple is best! But Its pretty easy to divide the number of soldiers in a unit by 4 isnt it? Just divide by two, then two again. VOILA!
Thats true J 8-) and that's fine if you have very small games with tiny units, but the system needs to work with all sizes of battles. If you had to count up units of 25 models or more per turn, that would get very dull soon. Also the models are not easy to count up, with them having 4 figures on each base which is also flat, which makes it hassle to do. We know this because of the old out numbered '2 to 1' rule in combat. If were you out number in combat 2 to 1, then you would suffer X amount of battle stress. Sound simple yes, but when this rule came into play, the game would stop and counting would begin... which no one liked because it was a total pain to do, and it needed its own points system too just for that rule work. Now that rule only came into play once in blue moon, but when it did it was a totally drag :?
thebiggestjimbo wrote:I dunno really, the battle stress/deviancy etc is pretty complicated, but i kinda like this as its such an important part of a battle
Tis true, but the battle stress is three systems all rolled into one, where you can count up the dice as you do it, so there is hardly any working out, and then you can roll off against each other which is fun :) rather an just taking the check all by yourself. Also, I have designed it so you can just look at the situation and say "oh that's a flank and 4 models dead, all that equals 6 battle stress dice", easy, and all just by looking at it. Also the system is not rigid, it adapts to the different situations on the board, which makes no two checks the same, if you follow me. Other games have leadership tests or checks, which often come in my different systems in one game, which do not change no matter the situation. However, its a new system and I'm always looking for ways to improve it :)
thebiggestjimbo wrote:Its pretty rare in the old days for casualties over half the starting army size. I studied a lot of Napoleonic and Roman history.
Well it can happen J with war machines and spells blasting them, I know because I have had it done to me :shock: lol. So is it fair that they would have to take a check all the way through a game... Also I have had more thought into this topic now. I think during a battle, you would worried about what is going to happen or what is happening to you right now, rather than past events of losing comrades, which I think you worry about after the battle more. There is also training consider, and state of mind too, in that you would be expecting to see death and lose comrades in battle. Also if you are in a big unit, how would you know that you lost 25% of your men over time, when all you see is the guy in front of you? However, if you suddenly lost 50% you would notice that and your nerves would be tested then, which the rules as they stand well for. The great thing about playing these games, is that we have the big picture in front of us, but the individual warrior does not. 'Hopelessness' which replaced the old '2 to 1 in Combat' rule is not really about being out numbered in combat, but giving the enemy the impression or illusion that they are.

Maybe we could think about have a Shell Shock rule, where something so bad happens in one area of the board, that the men around there cannot get over it and would suffer from it for the rest of the game???
thebiggestjimbo wrote:It may be a decent idea to have printable army "sheets" for each unit where you just put in the units details, with any modifiers like equipment, and maybe cross off boxes for casualties or something so its easy at a glance to keep track of your units/army. Could even use these sheets for various counters... Just an idea. Would be pretty easy to whip up said sheets on a spreadsheet or word processor and print out a load.
:) Yes your right and there are going to be little unit or pieces cards you can print off and attach to your gaming pieces or just have them to hand during a game. I hear this a lot, but never get round to making them :? . As for cross off boxes, large beasts and war machines are going to have them, but build into their bases, where you can make off the lost LPs with blue-tack.
thebiggestjimbo wrote:On a slightly unrelated topic... I reckon charging heavy cavalry should cause fear. It was a real test of a soldiers discipline to stand up to a heavy cavalry charge in real life.
:) That's a points, maybe 0 or +1 armored infantry could fear cavalry, and working it into the 'Soft Infantry' rule? How about that?

Your certainly good questions about Three Plains' system and really testing it, keep up the good work J :)
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