Streamlining the Rules

This forum is setup to talk about all the rules found in Three Plains’ Rulebook. So here new rules can be suggested, current rules can be debated by Epic Members and Epic Members or Me can help new players of Three Plains get to grip with its rules.
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Dave
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Streamlining the Rules

Post by Dave » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:11 pm

Hey guys,

Ok, as you all know I'm always to looking to streamline the Three Plains' rules and its game flow as much as I can, and for the most part I have got rid of most the big bumps in V3 now. However, there was 2 left, which for a long time I resisted changing, as they brought so much depth to the game and changing them may have meant rewriting the whole system :shock:

The bumps in the Three Plains were its stat line or it toughness, agility, magic (luck) and its endurance. The problem is, remember all those stats can be difficult, even for the best of us (or me :? even) and I noticed that the game testers never tuck to endurance counters. So here are my thought on how to fix this in the new rules:

Overcoming Saves
Once a 'hit' from either shooting, combat or magic has been struck against a model, the player who made that attack needs to roll another die again to see if that assault will wound or kill its target. This is called the 'Damage Die', and is rolled out using a D6.

To kill or wound a target, the attackers damage die score needs to roll over its target's total 'Save' found in its stats. Keep in mind that 'Armour' is just added on to a model's save. If a model's save is higher than 5, refer to 'Horde Attacks' underneath to see how to damage them. If an attack's damage die's score is under or equals a model's save, then it has failed to harm its target, and has no further affect. If the damage die is over a model's save, for each point it is, subtracted that score away from the target's total number of 'Life Points'. Once a piece has lost all of its life points, it has been slain and is removed from the game. For instance, a model with a total save of 3 has been attacked, and the player rolling the damage die against it scores a 6. So the attack beats the target's save and goes over it by 3 points. Those 3 points of damage are subtracted from the model's life points of just 1. Therefore, the model is killed outright and removed from that game.

All damage dice must be concentrated on one individual at a time in a group of models until it has been killed, before wounding the next one. If a single damage dice overkills its target model, those damage points are lost, and so do not pass over on to others in any accompanying group.

Note: Some attacks from certain weapons, war machines, and other magical devices and spells, have modifiers. These modifiers will either alter the save of their target to make it more likely that they will be harmed, or have a greater damage die to wound its target with instead of a standard D6.

Save Bonuses (Agility, Toughness & Magic)
'Agility, 'Toughness' and 'Magic' are save bonuses found underneath a piece's save that can give them certain advantages when an enemy has to overcome their save, which are as follows:

Agility (Ag)
A piece's agility of a 1 will discount all damage die rolls of a 6 made against it, and an agility of 2 will discount all damage die rolls of a 5 and 6, and a agility of a 3 will discount all rolls of a 4, 5 and 6, and so on.

Toughness (T)
For each point of 'Toughness' a piece has, it will resist enemy damage dice save reductions. For instance, if an attack from a great blade that does -2 to your pieces save, which has a toughness of 1, that enemy attack will only do -1 to its save instead.

Magic (Mg)
If a piece has a 'Magic' rating, its save can never be lowered underneath that value. For instance, a piece with a save of 3 and a magic rating of 2, that piece's save can ever become less than a 2. However, some special attacks can cancel out a piece's magic save. If a piece' magic rating becomes higher than its normal save for any reason, then its standard save will always match that value.

Horde Damage
If a piece cannot be harmed, because it save goes beyond a damage die's capacity to overcome it, or its agility saves will always block that attack. Against these saves, roll out all damage dice as normal and for each group of dice that adds up to equal the save you need to overcome deduct 1 life point from your target. For instance, a save of a 7 that needs a score of an 8 to overcome it is attacked by a roll of a 4, 6, 4 and 1. The attacker would add the 4 and 4 together to make the 8 damage needed to overcome their target's save. Once a group of dice has been counted, it cannot be counted again in that same horde attack. Also, dice discounted because of agility can never be counted in a horde attack.

Exhaustion
Any good general knows that Dwarves in combat are as hard as nails, but they also know they are lazy fat lumps and will tire easily, after only a few bouts of combat have passed. Once the bearded fat louts start to show signs of fatigue, that's the time to throw in fresh troops to finish them off.

All animated pieces can be affected by 'Exhaustion', and those which do become less affective fighters on the battlefield.

Some manoeuvres and using various weapons can have a cost in 'Exhaustion Counters', and if a piece builds up 4 or more of them, they will suffer from the affects of exhaustion. Once a piece suffers an exhaustion counter place it next to it, where the counter must follow that piece around until that tired piece attempts to recover from exhaustion.

Suffering from Exhaustion
A gaming piece suffering from the effects from exhaustion will suffer from the following affects:

• In combat, exhausted models suffer -1 to all their attacking rolls, whilst the enemy adds +1 to all their rolls made against them.
• -1 to hit when shooting.
• All forms of movement halved.
• Pieces can no longer 'Dash', as explained on page **.

Note: When a piece suffers from exhaustion, all models within that piece must suffer from its affects.

Recovering from Exhaustion
For a piece to recover from exhaustion it must remain still and do nothing until the next two combat phases in the game have passed. This means a recovering piece cannot move, shoot, cast magic or fight until after it has had time to recuperate. After its second combat phase has passed, all of its exhaustion counters it had built up will be cleared, which means it will act as normal once more.

If a piece that is recovering from exhaustion is charged, then it has failed to recover, and must fight still exhausted and will not have its exhaustion counters cleared off in its following turn.


This would leave a stat line looking like this:

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Indeast of this:

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As you can see that would be a lot easier to remember, as its only got 6 stats now instead of 9. A piece's save has been knock into one save, and the 3 others have been turned into bonuses, which not all pieces will have. So again this would be a lot more easy to remember and work out during a game, and I have managed to keep that depth in still too.

Im quick please with agility, as it works really well. It blocks slowly and more powerful blows, but it cannot stop the quicker and weaker strikes from an enemy, which makes it more realistic than before. So a pact of war dogs may only have a save of a 1, but they might have an agility of 2, which would allow them to dodge the slower more powerful hits with them having faster reactions than humans. Also, if they get hit by a great blade which does -2 to there save, it would not their agility ability to dodge that blow.

Lastly, I really didn't want to get rid of Endurance out of the game, as its very realistic element of fighting a pitch battle, but it was a pain with all those counter making it stick out like saw thumb. So I have turned it into Exhaustion Counters instead, which will be suffered when a piece does a certain maneuver or they use a certain weapon such as big and heavy great blade. This way, it cuts all those down down to a minimum and they are only used when they come into play and not all the time as before.

Anyway, what do you guys think of this :)
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tom1
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Re: Streamlining the Rules

Post by tom1 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:07 pm

I think i'll want to see the rules tested first as making 1 save radically changes the game so will see how it goes, also why didn't the jigor have a soldiering value as it means we have 7 values not 6
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Dave
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Re: Streamlining the Rules

Post by Dave » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:50 pm

tom1 wrote:I think i'll want to see the rules tested first as making 1 save radically changes the game so will see how it goes
In fact it doesn't change the gaming system too much and once you have played it, I think you will pick it up very quickly. However, if I have been unclear, just let me know which bits you are unsure of, and I will make it clearer for you. I have to be clear, because if you don't get it, others wont either :)
tom1 wrote: also why didn't the jigor have a soldiering value as it means we have 7 values not 6
That was just a little typo which I have fixed now, thanks Tom :)
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Re: Streamlining the Rules

Post by TristanSykes1994 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:10 pm

At first glance I'm not too keen on the new save system, agility seems like it could be too good on big monsters and harder pieces with lots of wounds, but I'll withold judgement until I've seen it in action.
What if Deja Vu...
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Re: Streamlining the Rules

Post by TristanSykes1994 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:21 pm

Also, as a gametester, I know exactly how I would exploit this to break the system.
What if Deja Vu...
Meant I lost a life and started back at the last checkpoint?
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Re: Streamlining the Rules

Post by Dave » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:46 pm

TristanSykes1994 wrote:At first glance I'm not too keen on the new save system, agility seems like it could be too good on big monsters and harder pieces with lots of wounds, but I'll withold judgement until I've seen it in action.
Well me and Trish has a chat about this on skype, and it turns out that I was unclear about how a agility saves work. So again it looks like I need to be clearer. But I have do the working outs and trust me it works better than before, but just in a different way.

The confusing looks like its coming from how agility works. Really all I have done is moved it to the top end of the dice roll, so it work in reverse. This seems odd I know, but it is really a better work of working out saves in the system, as they work independently from each other now, which allows all sorts new gaming mechanics to work now. For instance, here is the new rules for Great Hammers:

A great hammer is a two-handed weapon and successful hits from this weapon inflict -2 to an enemy piece's save. A great Hammer also cancels out all toughness bonuses its target may have. However, a great hammer will always double up a targets agility bonus if it has one, whilst striking it in combat.

So, this weapon would be really good again Tough things like Dragons and Ogres, as it gets rid of their Toughness bonuses, but its its useless again fast and agility creatures just was war dogs or spites, as a very heavy weapon would be such as a War Hammer.

Also, it really doesn't change to much in how most to the pieces act on the board. In the old system, to wound an Elf, you have to roll a 4+ on a damage dice. In the new one, an Elf has a save of a 2 and an agility of a 1, which means it can dodge 6s. So to wound it, you would over it save of a 2 and discount all rolls of a 6. This means you would have to roll a 3, 4 and a 5, which is still 3 sides of the dice and the same as before.
TristanSykes1994 wrote:Also, as a gametester, I know exactly how I would exploit this to break the system.
Well I would to see you try :twisted:
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Re: Streamlining the Rules

Post by Dave » Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:38 pm

Here's a revision of the new rules again, and please let me know if I still need to make it clearer again :)

Overcoming Saves
Once a 'hit' from either shooting, combat or magic has been struck against a model, the player who made that attack needs to roll out another die called a 'Damage Die' to see if that assault will wound or kill its target. This die is always rolled out using a D6, and for each point it can roll over its target's save, subtracted that score away from its total number of 'Life Points'. Once a piece has lost all of its life points, it has been slain and is removed from the game. For instance, a model with a total save of 3 and has 1 life point has been attacked, and the player rolling the damage die against it scores a 6. So the attack beats the target's save and goes over it by 3 damage points, killing the model outright. If an attacking damage die cannot beat an enemy's save it has failed and discounted. If a model's save is higher than 5, refer to 'Horde Attacks' underneath to see how to damage them. All attacking dice damage must be concentrated on one individual at a time in a group of models until it has been killed, before wounding the next one. If a single damage dice overkills its target model, those damage points are lost, and so do not pass over on to others in any accompanying group.

Save Bonuses (Agility, Toughness & Magic)
'Agility', 'Toughness' and 'Magic' are save bonuses, which can be found underneath a piece's save that can give them certain advantages when an enemy has to overcome their save, which are as follows:

Agility (Ag)
For each point of agility a piece has discount the highest roll of an attacking damage dice, working down the die for each point. For instance, an agility of 1 will discount all damage die rolls of a 6, and an agility of a 2 will discount all rolls of a 5 and 6, and so on.

Toughness (T)
For each point of 'Toughness' a piece has, it will resist enemy damage dice save reductions. For instance, if an attack from a great blade that does -2 to your pieces save, which has a toughness of 1, that enemy attack will only do -1 to its save instead.

Magic (Mg)
If a piece has a 'Magic' rating, its save can never be lowered underneath that value. For instance, a piece with a save of 3 and a magic rating of 2, that piece's save can ever become less than a 2. However, some special attacks can cancel out a piece's magic save. If a piece' magic rating becomes higher than its normal save for any reason, then its standard save will always match that value.
Horde Damage

If a piece cannot be harmed, because it save goes beyond a damage die's capacity to overcome it, or its agility saves will always block that attack. Against these saves, roll out all damage dice as normal and for each group of dice that adds up to equal the save you need to overcome deduct 1 life point from your target. For instance, a save of a 7 that needs a score of an 8 to overcome it is attacked by a roll of a 4, 6, 4 and 1. The attacker would add the 4 and 4 together to make the 8 damage needed to overcome their target's save. Once a group of dice has been counted, it cannot be counted again in that same horde attack. Also, dice discounted because of agility can never be counted in a horde attack.

Damage Multipliers
Some attacks are so devastating that they have a 'Damage Multiplier'. This means, these attacks will multiply the damage in life points they will do if they can overcome a target's save. For instance, a Dragon that multiplies its damage by 3 scores 2 life points of damage on its target, which would increase to 6 life points after applying its damage multiplier.

Damage multipliers cannot multiply each other, but they can be added together in an attack. For instance, if an Orc Bull that had a damage multiplier of 2 had a magical sword with a damage multiplier of 3, altogether his attack would do 5 times the damage in combat.


Also today, I'm glad to report we played with the new system for the first time, and it worked really well with no bumps in it at all. I really do believe it has improved the game :) However, there's a lot of play testing needed yet to re-balance out the magic items and spells again, but it will be worth to see this new system in the game. Its sort of like having to take a step back to make two forwards, if you know what I mean :)
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Re: Streamlining the Rules

Post by Brazouck » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:45 am

So what is the use of the endurance of the Jigor ?

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Re: Streamlining the Rules

Post by Dave » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:33 am

Brazouck wrote:So what is the use of the endurance of the Jigor ?
Woops :? that was a mistake, I should have been 'S' for soldering that I have just fixed, thanks for pointed that :) So, basically that stat has disappeared from the game now, and has been replaced with exhaustion counters, which is much more easier to apply, as we saw in yesterday's game test :)
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Re: Streamlining the Rules

Post by tom1 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:45 am

exhaustion counter make more sense as tbh it got irritating having to move the endurance counters up with said model
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